Future of the RakeSearch project

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Profile Michael H.W. Weber
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Message 1018 - Posted: 4 Jun 2019, 16:47:06 UTC - in response to Message 1017.  

I have completed about 700 of the new rank 10 WUs without issue on my various Threadripper and Intel systems under Windows 10. Have any ODLS pairs been found yet in the rank 10 search?

Thank you for reports! Now completed ~11000 of workunits and no pairs with ODLS found. For rank 9 on average, ratio is ~1/270.

Optimize the app for rank 10 and continue the search for a while.

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Message 1020 - Posted: 4 Jun 2019, 19:24:25 UTC - in response to Message 1018.  

Hello Michael!

... Optimize the app for rank 10 and continue the search for a while. ...

For search in rank 10, we made a new application. And of course, we implemented the most powerful optimizations. (Due to changes of structure, the need for some is gone). But we hope that this application can be additionally optimized - it's another very interesting problem!

Yes, time of processing new tasks - increased. But if we see into workunit file for rank 9 and rank 10, we saw, that during processing each task for rank 9, the computer must fill 56 square cells by values 0..8, and for rank 10 - computer must fill 62 cells by values 0..9 (for making more precision evaluation needs to take into account additional numbers). Work per one task - really increased in several times.
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Profile Michael H.W. Weber
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Message 1024 - Posted: 5 Jun 2019, 9:08:55 UTC - in response to Message 1020.  
Last modified: 5 Jun 2019, 9:11:27 UTC


For search in rank 10, we made a new application. And of course, we implemented the most powerful optimizations. (Due to changes of structure, the need for some is gone). But we hope that this application can be additionally optimized - it's another very interesting problem!

For rank 9 a third-party client was released which utilizes SSE/AVX etc. variants and is significantly faster compared to the original client.
Are you telling me that the current rank 10 app release (which requires run times of up to 4 hrs for some of the tasks I completed - compared to 20 min. for rank 9 tasks on the same machine) already employs the same optimizations incl. an autodetection module to select the appropriate SSE/AVX code?

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Message 1025 - Posted: 5 Jun 2019, 9:54:45 UTC - in response to Message 1024.  

... Are you telling me that the current rank 10 app release (which requires run times of up to 4 hrs for some of the tasks I completed - compared to 20 min. for rank 9 tasks on the same machine) already employs the same optimizations incl. an autodetection module to select the appropriate SSE/AVX code? ...

Yes. Not all (because some optimizations linked with previous structure of application), but most effective. Without this optimizations computations reqiure in several times more time. This does not exclude options of additional optimizations. Amount of work into "average" workunit, for rank 10, as we see now - increased into several times. And like for rank 9, amount of work in different workunits can be varied by ~3-5-7 times for most workunits and by 20-30 for very small and very large workunits.
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Message 1027 - Posted: 5 Jun 2019, 10:51:52 UTC - in response to Message 1025.  

... Are you telling me that the current rank 10 app release (which requires run times of up to 4 hrs for some of the tasks I completed - compared to 20 min. for rank 9 tasks on the same machine) already employs the same optimizations incl. an autodetection module to select the appropriate SSE/AVX code? ...

Yes. Not all (because some optimizations linked with previous structure of application), but most effective. Without this optimizations computations reqiure in several times more time. This does not exclude options of additional optimizations. Amount of work into "average" workunit, for rank 10, as we see now - increased into several times. And like for rank 9, amount of work in different workunits can be varied by ~3-5-7 times for most workunits and by 20-30 for very small and very large workunits.

This is also important, as stated in https://rake.boincfast.ru/rakesearch/forum_thread.php?id=39&postid=1011:
In new workunits (for rank 10) much more squares per 1% - 10 millions versus 2.75 millions in workunits for rank 9. And for "making" square of rank 10 also need more work than for square rank 9.

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Message 1028 - Posted: 5 Jun 2019, 14:35:43 UTC

Out of work. Will there be more?
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Message 1029 - Posted: 6 Jun 2019, 2:08:37 UTC - in response to Message 1024.  


For search in rank 10, we made a new application. And of course, we implemented the most powerful optimizations. (Due to changes of structure, the need for some is gone). But we hope that this application can be additionally optimized - it's another very interesting problem!

For rank 9 a third-party client was released which utilizes SSE/AVX etc. variants and is significantly faster compared to the original client.
Are you telling me that the current rank 10 app release (which requires run times of up to 4 hrs for some of the tasks I completed - compared to 20 min. for rank 9 tasks on the same machine) already employs the same optimizations incl. an autodetection module to select the appropriate SSE/AVX code?

Michael.


Why would you assume a separate data set will complete in the same time? Might as well say I want my PrimeGrid Seventeen or Bust task to complete in the same time as Sophie Germain.

Daniel and hoarfrost has already said multiple times that much of the optimizations are already in the rank 10 app and to not expect the huge reduction with any AVX/SSE optimization.
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Profile Michael H.W. Weber
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Message 1030 - Posted: 6 Jun 2019, 7:25:53 UTC - in response to Message 1029.  

Why would you assume a separate data set will complete in the same time?

I did not assume this at all. I was just interested to know whether additional optimizations may be expected for the rank 10 app. Running the original rank 9 client vs. the SSE/AVX optimized one is simply a waste of energy ressources. So, in case further improvements could be expected, I would prefer to wait until these have been implemented before I blow out energy as hot air.

Michael.
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Message 1031 - Posted: 6 Jun 2019, 20:26:21 UTC - in response to Message 1028.  

Out of work. Will there be more?

Yes. Another bunch of tasks generated.

Thank you!
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Message 1033 - Posted: 7 Jun 2019, 13:04:23 UTC

Started crunching R10 wus yesterday! So far they works fine, takes 3 hours per wu more or less.

So the whole R10 search space is 7 millions bigger than R9? Yeah to complete that we will need more people and hopefully a GPU app, otherwise it's impossible. But something is better than nothing! So... who will find the first R10 ODLS?
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Message 1035 - Posted: 7 Jun 2019, 13:41:30 UTC - in response to Message 1033.  
Last modified: 7 Jun 2019, 13:47:53 UTC

Started crunching R10 wus yesterday! So far they works fine, takes 3 hours per wu more or less.

So the whole R10 search space is 7 millions bigger than R9? Yeah to complete that we will need more people and hopefully a GPU app, otherwise it's impossible. But something is better than nothing! So... who will find the first R10 ODLS?

It's not very feasible. I released 1st optimized app about 1.5 year ago. This means that search of whole rank 10 space would roughly take ten million years at current speed. Assuming that Moore's law still would be in effect, full search of rank 10 space would require about 34 years. Assuming that more people and GPU app would be available now and allow to crunch thousand times faster, it still would require about 19 years.
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Message 1039 - Posted: 11 Jun 2019, 4:50:37 UTC
Last modified: 11 Jun 2019, 5:15:35 UTC

Credit 107.23 seem a little low for almost 3 hours of work.
Are we going to see new (10) Badges or keep the same pace?
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Message 1046 - Posted: 14 Jun 2019, 21:30:37 UTC

/r/unpopularopinion, but now that we're below 900 R9 tasks left, would it be an option to send out any timed-out R9 task with only 1-3 days of deadline instead of a full week? I'm seeing some users that have had a queue for a couple days but no work done whatsoever. I'd imagine you people wanting to wrap up R9 too.
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Message 1048 - Posted: 15 Jun 2019, 2:51:11 UTC - in response to Message 1046.  

/r/unpopularopinion, but now that we're below 900 R9 tasks left, would it be an option to send out any timed-out R9 task with only 1-3 days of deadline instead of a full week? I'm seeing some users that have had a queue for a couple days but no work done whatsoever. I'd imagine you people wanting to wrap up R9 too.

Good idea. We plan to use it for new workunits after the creation of the first set of tasks. We update 'R9' workunit also and new tasks for this workunits will receive a 3 days deadline.
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Message 1049 - Posted: 15 Jun 2019, 8:41:35 UTC - in response to Message 1039.  

Credit 107.23 seem a little low for almost 3 hours of work.

Yes, we see this. :) Credit computes by standard BOINC algorithm. When using the optimized application through an anonymous platform computer received credit like usual standard application, but if this application works faster, credits per hour - increased. During the search for rank 9 optimized application were faster standard in several times and computers got a big credit per hour.

Are we going to see new (10) Badges or keep the same pace?

For search for rank 10 sets of badges are the same.
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Message 1056 - Posted: 17 Jun 2019, 22:27:53 UTC - in response to Message 1049.  

Credit 107.23 seem a little low for almost 3 hours of work.

Yes, we see this. :) Credit computes by standard BOINC algorithm. When using the optimized application through an anonymous platform computer received credit like usual standard application, but if this application works faster, credits per hour - increased. During the search for rank 9 optimized application were faster standard in several times and computers got a big credit per hour.

Are we going to see new (10) Badges or keep the same pace?

For search for rank 10 sets of badges are the same.

Thank you for the Update.
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Message 1059 - Posted: 20 Jun 2019, 14:16:18 UTC

Given how the size of each WU is already known (10 millions of squares), just giving a fixed amount of credits per WU would also be fine. Sure, the time required to complete each WU is different, but the amount completed is always the same.
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Message 1061 - Posted: 20 Jun 2019, 14:56:39 UTC - in response to Message 1059.  

Given how the size of each WU is already known (10 millions of squares), just giving a fixed amount of credits per WU would also be fine. Sure, the time required to complete each WU is different, but the amount completed is always the same.

No, size of task is not known. 10 millions of squared per 1% - rough estimate only, for display progress of computing.
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Message 1063 - Posted: 20 Jun 2019, 20:34:35 UTC - in response to Message 1061.  

Given how the size of each WU is already known (10 millions of squares), just giving a fixed amount of credits per WU would also be fine. Sure, the time required to complete each WU is different, but the amount completed is always the same.

No, size of task is not known. 10 millions of squared per 1% - rough estimate only, for display progress of computing.


This translates in roughly 1 billion squares for each WU. Based on my ODLS results, R9 WU's were usually between 100 million and 300 million squares, most of them centering around the 200 million squares. As the 1 billion squares is a rough estimate, it is easily possible that there are simple WUs consisting of only 600 million squares, but also complex WUs consisting of 2 billion squares. So yeah...
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Message 1070 - Posted: 23 Jun 2019, 11:44:41 UTC

Congratulations everyone, R9 search has now been 100% completed!
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