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Fardringle

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Message 1363 - Posted: 26 Aug 2020, 23:15:44 UTC

The project has been selected as the Formula BOINC sprint project for 08/27/2020 22:00 (UTC) to 08/30/2020 21:59 (UTC).

This tends to bring a lot of attention and extra participants to a project. However, the project is currently out of work. Is there a possibility of creating more work both for those who have been working on this project regularly, as well as those who will be joining the project new for the sprint race?
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Kiska

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Message 1364 - Posted: 26 Aug 2020, 23:23:28 UTC

Unfortunately munin agrees:
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crashtech

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Message 1365 - Posted: 27 Aug 2020, 0:11:30 UTC
Last modified: 27 Aug 2020, 0:19:08 UTC

It's the middle of the night where the project is located. It may be several hours before anyone on the project is aware of the problem.
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Oleg Zaikin
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Message 1366 - Posted: 27 Aug 2020, 10:24:16 UTC - in response to Message 1363.  

The project has been selected as the Formula BOINC sprint project for 08/27/2020 22:00 (UTC) to 08/30/2020 21:59 (UTC).

This tends to bring a lot of attention and extra participants to a project. However, the project is currently out of work. Is there a possibility of creating more work both for those who have been working on this project regularly, as well as those who will be joining the project new for the sprint race?


We were not aware of the sprint, sorry about that. Unfortunately, all workunits of the current experiment have already been generated, so we have nothing to generate at the moment. It would be better to choose another project for this purpose.
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Fardringle

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Message 1367 - Posted: 27 Aug 2020, 11:51:41 UTC - in response to Message 1366.  

We were not aware of the sprint, sorry about that. Unfortunately, all workunits of the current experiment have already been generated, so we have nothing to generate at the moment. It would be better to choose another project for this purpose.


That is perfectly understandable. Thank you for making the work available that you did. Hopefully it will give you some good results in preparation for the next phase of the project.
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Dark Angel

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Message 1368 - Posted: 27 Aug 2020, 12:11:27 UTC - in response to Message 1366.  

The project has been selected as the Formula BOINC sprint project for 08/27/2020 22:00 (UTC) to 08/30/2020 21:59 (UTC).

This tends to bring a lot of attention and extra participants to a project. However, the project is currently out of work. Is there a possibility of creating more work both for those who have been working on this project regularly, as well as those who will be joining the project new for the sprint race?


We were not aware of the sprint, sorry about that. Unfortunately, all workunits of the current experiment have already been generated, so we have nothing to generate at the moment. It would be better to choose another project for this purpose.


It has been repeatedly suggested to the Formula BOINC administrators that they ask projects if they actually want to be involved before marking them eligible for a sprint. Thus far that suggestion has fallen on deaf ears. The result of a project not being ready for the sudden increase in work capacity in the past has been considerable frustration on the part of both project administrators who didn't know what was about to hit them as well as Sprint participants who for the most part just want to get as much work done as possible and get frustrated because they can't get work.
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Profile marsinph

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Message 1370 - Posted: 27 Aug 2020, 16:32:20 UTC - in response to Message 1365.  

It's the middle of the night where the project is located. It may be several hours before anyone on the project is aware of the problem.



Hello, project is located in Russia. Admin/project scientist / developer too.
He is active. So normally he know.
The local time of his city (+/- 500km north from Moscow , is UTC+3.
Wait and see. But so far I know the two previous sets of WU are finished.
One week ago, he started a new set to test. See his post on "news"
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hoarfrost
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Message 1371 - Posted: 27 Aug 2020, 20:49:40 UTC

Hello friends!

If the sprint had taken place a month earlier, it would have been a great deal - we would save about a month of work. But now current search are really near to finish and all workunits already generated...

Thank you for your participation!
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Profile marsinph

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Message 1372 - Posted: 27 Aug 2020, 21:39:11 UTC - in response to Message 1371.  

Hello friends!

If the sprint had taken place a month earlier, it would have been a great deal - we would save about a month of work. But now current search are really near to finish and all workunits already generated...

Thank you for your participation!



Hello dear friend. Thank you for your reactions and explanations.
Already many years we know each other and many years always you are honnest and fair.
By the way, it was predicted. two weeks ago you have sau it.
The problem is not at your side. But ONLY at the admin of SETIBZH.
The most knwon who. Only one person act as "God" of boinc.

Friendly and kind support for yout actions. Keep your power. You are from the same kind as admin of Xanson !
May I suggest you to contact "God", the big boss of SETBZH (also the "God" of one if the most powerfull teal. You perfect know who he is !!
Take care go ahead. Greetings
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Dark Angel

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Message 1373 - Posted: 28 Aug 2020, 22:57:35 UTC

For the record, there is a substantial amount of work still in progress holding up other people's already completed work. This seems to be being held by some high core-count machines that only recently registered. It's become known that Team Anand Tech uses a tactic of collecting as much work as possible at the beginning of a sprint with no intention of completing it but rather just denying other teams the opportunity of earning the credit, and then simply aborting it after the sprint is over. For regular volunteers of this project this is probably more of a minor inconvenience since you'll get your work units back for re-issue. It is however dirty play and disrespectful of both the project and the intent of the Formula Boinc competition.
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crashtech

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Message 1374 - Posted: 29 Aug 2020, 2:46:38 UTC - in response to Message 1373.  

For the record, there is a substantial amount of work still in progress holding up other people's already completed work. This seems to be being held by some high core-count machines that only recently registered. It's become known that Team Anand Tech uses a tactic of collecting as much work as possible at the beginning of a sprint with no intention of completing it but rather just denying other teams the opportunity of earning the credit, and then simply aborting it after the sprint is over. For regular volunteers of this project this is probably more of a minor inconvenience since you'll get your work units back for re-issue. It is however dirty play and disrespectful of both the project and the intent of the Formula Boinc competition.

A baseless allegation. All of our team members have a high regard for the science that is done via our contributions, and have spent countless hours and huge sums of money to further causes that interest us, with no interest in remuneration like some others have. My guess would be that some competitors have simply neglected to re-enable networking, either by habit or forgetfulness. Ascribing malice so prematurely is not really a good look, I hope you might reconsider.
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xii5ku

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Message 1375 - Posted: 29 Aug 2020, 9:09:21 UTC - in response to Message 1373.  

@Dark Angel, speaking for myself: When I load tasks from a project which uses a quorum of 2, I am *very* careful to determine how many tasks my computers are able to complete before the finish. I am monitoring the computers continuously, and am readjusting my workqueues as soon as possible when my performance estimation was below or above actual performance.

As for your hypotheses what sort of tactics TeAm AnandTech members apply, you seem to be quite sure of yourself. My response to this is that your post perhaps tells us something about your mindset, but definitely very little about TeAm AnandTech. Some of us, including myself, do have high core count machines. It also can happen that boinc client instances are registered newly to a project at the contest. But the rest of your post is just not true from all what I know.
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Profile marsinph

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Message 1376 - Posted: 29 Aug 2020, 14:32:14 UTC - in response to Message 1373.  

For the record, there is a substantial amount of work still in progress holding up other people's already completed work. This seems to be being held by some high core-count machines that only recently registered. It's become known that Team Anand Tech uses a tactic of collecting as much work as possible at the beginning of a sprint with no intention of completing it but rather just denying other teams the opportunity of earning the credit, and then simply aborting it after the sprint is over. For regular volunteers of this project this is probably more of a minor inconvenience since you'll get your work units back for re-issue. It is however dirty play and disrespectful of both the project and the intent of the Formula Boinc competition.



I canb not accept your insinuation against Anand Tech !
I have carefully check each user of Anand Tech, having a RAC above 0.9 . No any have WU in "stock", no any in bunker.
Only one user have "masked" hosts.
Check by your self !!!
Also check the CR since start of sprint. Anand with a CR of 1.3M, seems to show that tyhey retirn WU !
Then look at general : Anand has 290 points less than your team. It can nbot be a danger !!!
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Profile marsinph

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Message 1377 - Posted: 29 Aug 2020, 16:56:01 UTC - in response to Message 1373.  

For the record, there is a substantial amount of work still in progress holding up other people's already completed work. This seems to be being held by some high core-count machines that only recently registered. It's become known that Team Anand Tech uses a tactic of collecting as much work as possible at the beginning of a sprint with no intention of completing it but rather just denying other teams the opportunity of earning the credit, and then simply aborting it after the sprint is over. For regular volunteers of this project this is probably more of a minor inconvenience since you'll get your work units back for re-issue. It is however dirty play and disrespectful of both the project and the intent of the Formula Boinc competition.




Me again.
Dark Angel, if what you say is true, then it will be very very easy to know who (or wich team) is doing so !!!
How : there are no any new WU, there are (sat29rh 16:25UTC : 2089 "out in field". The latest were sent on 27aug, retirned 28 aug

Considering DL of seven days.
Then considering the actual ranking/CR in all divisions, nothing can have big change (exept "pending"). Personaly I have 52WU pending.
If CR in on team signifactely change, then perhaps you were right. My host are programed for each hour update. If I receive new WU (it wiull say "resent".
Very easy to know from who !
So, if after end of sprint the most of the 2089WU comes back, it will be very easy to know from who.
If on sep 2th, a lot of WU also come back, we will know.
In both case, the, we will know
Of course I not forget it can happen by people who not follow or are not attentive and have a few WU.
I also not forget there are very few cruncher on Rake. Only look the change of RAC the next day/week and compare with today.
For sure the top 25 in RAC (me included). Inside this top 25, about the half have visible host and all are with null WU and also connected today.

So everyone, I suggest to be attentive, and not attack without serious preuves.

Best regards and please everwhere on Earth, be very carefull on Covid.
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Kiska

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Message 1378 - Posted: 29 Aug 2020, 20:09:38 UTC

I'll post this graph:
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Aurum

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Message 1379 - Posted: 29 Aug 2020, 22:29:06 UTC - in response to Message 1373.  

It's become known that Team AnandTech uses a tactic of collecting as much work as possible at the beginning of a sprint with no intention of completing it but rather just denying other teams the opportunity of earning the credit, and then simply aborting it after the sprint is over. For regular volunteers of this project this is probably more of a minor inconvenience since you'll get your work units back for re-issue. It is however dirty play and disrespectful of both the project and the intent of the Formula Boinc competition.
I have no idea what Team AnandTech (TA) is doing now but I can recall an incident last year that lends credence to your theory. I was searching for help with some configuration and found useful info in the AnandTech forum. I recognized someone I'd talked with in other forums and was invited to join TA for some race event due to start in a few days. I'd never heard of "bunkering" but was taught how they do it. I assumed they wanted to win this race and I thought they helped me with my technical issue so I'll help them win this race. After it started it was clear that most of the work reported was mine. The others had switched to a different team. Their reasoning was that they didn't think they could win but they'd be damned if another Team X was going to win, i.e. TA + TZ > TX while TX > TA. I was used by TA and I resent it and will never associate with them again. They even had a by-invitation-only inner sanctum sanctorum forum where they did their scheming. I was not invited into the inner circle because they had to test my mettle first. I failed and never got an invite (that I would've rejected having learned their true colors).
Next year Team RDFRS will be in Formula BOINC League One and we will crush Team AnandTech like a bug.
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Aurum

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Message 1382 - Posted: 29 Aug 2020, 22:34:20 UTC - in response to Message 1373.  
Last modified: 29 Aug 2020, 22:36:47 UTC

This forum works so good it posted my reply four times :-)
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Aurum

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Message 1383 - Posted: 29 Aug 2020, 22:41:12 UTC - in response to Message 1378.  

I'll post this graph:

I'm in that first spike late Wednesday. I don't bunker in any way. When I saw the next FB Sprint was here I just "Allowed New Work" on my computers and let them run free as the wind.
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xii5ku

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Message 1384 - Posted: 30 Aug 2020, 9:22:22 UTC - in response to Message 1379.  
Last modified: 30 Aug 2020, 9:41:20 UTC

(off-topic talk, completely unrelated to RakeSearch, about nefarious schemes which TeAm AnandTech allegedly practice)

Aurum wrote:
I have no idea what Team AnandTech (TA) is doing now but I can recall an incident last year that lends credence to your theory. I was searching for help with some configuration and found useful info in the AnandTech forum. I recognized someone I'd talked with in other forums and was invited to join TA for some race event due to start in a few days. I'd never heard of "bunkering" but was taught how they do it. I assumed they wanted to win this race and I thought they helped me with my technical issue so I'll help them win this race. After it started it was clear that most of the work reported was mine. The others had switched to a different team.
Since FB started the sprints in 2017, I remember only one sprint in which several of us (probably most of those among us who are active in FB sprints) joined another team for the contest; it was the Amicable sprint of May 2019. Outside of FB, some of us ran in the Einstein@home discipline of Pentathlon 2019 for a another team. Do you refer to one of these, or a different one?

My individual TeAm mates have different views towards team affiliation. Some are occasionally going over to another team which they are friends with, others are never doing this and always stay with the TeAm. (The individuals in the team also have widely different opinions about whether or not to participate in contests at all, or in what types of projects, or whether to prioritize one or another contest when they overlap in time... Same like individuals in pretty much all teams put different weight towards personal goals and team goals.)

As for myself, I have been with TeAm AnandTech ever since I started with Distributed Computing less than 4 years ago, but I ran for other teams two times: in the above mentioned two contests.


Aurum wrote:
Their reasoning was that they didn't think they could win but they'd be damned if another Team X was going to win, i.e. TA + TZ > TX while TX > TA.
Is this your interpretation, or are you quoting a TeAm member?

My own motivations were these:
I joined [H]ard|OCP for Einstein at Pentathlon in order to help them get a medal (i.e. rank in the top three in this one out of five disciplines of Pentathlon), and I did so because some [H]ard|OCP members helped us several times before, including in the other four disciplines of the same Pentathlon; and virtually the entire [H]ard|OCP team helped us earlier in a PrimeGrid challenge as a one-off fun event.
Further, I joined OcUK - Overclockers UK during the Amicable sprint at FB right after this Pentathlon because two members of OcUK helped us in that Pentathlon too, and because I had fond memories of our earlier Formula BOINC battles against OcUK.

Now, check the scores of TeAm AnandTech vs. [H]ard|OCP in the overall ranking of Pentathlon 2019 (331 : 333 points for 5th : 4th rank), or of TeAm AnandTech vs. OcUK in the Amicable FB sprint (5th : 4th rank). If there was anybody in the team switching not out of friendship but in order to get a tactical advantage for the TeAm against a "team x" (which one?), then these tactics were not overly successful as far as I can see. ;-)


Aurum wrote:
I was used by TA and I resent it and will never associate with them again.
I am shocked and sorry that the event turned out this way for you. (Was it one of the two above?)


Aurum wrote:
They even had a by-invitation-only inner sanctum sanctorum forum where they did their scheming. I was not invited into the inner circle because they had to test my mettle first. I failed and never got an invite (that I would've rejected having learned their true colors).
Some teams have only an open forum, others only a closed forum, and again others have both. TeAm AnandTech has both. At the time of your bad experience, our closed forum section was most likely consisting of one long thread using a "conversation" feature of the forum software (i.e., PM in which more than two users communicate), in which it was possible for moderators to add users but AFAIR impossible to remove users. The moderators added users there who were with the TeAm already for some longer time and were occasionally or regularly taking part in team contests.

Now, having an open and a closed forum section covering the same topics, it is obviously always a somewhat arbitrary and somewhat ad-hoc decision in which section to post something. I don't recall whether or not our supporting of [H] and OcUK in those two contests was discussed in the open forum, and if yes, how timely. Also, if anybody of those who switched was in PM contact with you at that time, could have thought of informing you, but perhaps did not.


Aurum wrote:
Next year Team RDFRS will be in Formula BOINC League One and we will crush Team AnandTech like a bug.
Whatever the circumstances were which left you with this bad experience with TeAm AnandTech, it sounds as if there is little that can be done to correct this impression which we made (involuntarily, as far as I can tell). I am not a team-switcher, but if you would like my support for RDFRS in an upcoming contest this year or next year, give me notice. My user name in the anandtech.com forum is StefanR5R. I will run for TeAm AnandTech in the WCG Birthday Challenge of 11/2020 though, and in TeAm AnandTech's next internal annual Folding@home race which will probably happen during the entire month of 01/2021.

------------

Sorry to everybody else here for my long off-topic post.
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10esseeTony

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Message 1385 - Posted: 30 Aug 2020, 15:08:56 UTC - in response to Message 1379.  

I have the private conversation we had pulled up in a different tab. I would love to show what really transpired, but, well, it was a private conversation after all. Perhaps a redacted version, along with some paraphrase, would not be out of place?

10esseetony: May 6, 2019
The BOINC Pentathlon is in full swing. Some of us from multiple teams (4 teams listed, but now redacted) were thinking of joining up with [H]ardForums in the project Einstein, to try and topple the triple Giant of SETI.USA/eXtremeSystems/The.Scottish.BOINC.Team. (In just this one event) We can't let them beat everyone at EVERYthing.

If interested you have almost 4 days to bunker, then it runs from : Start: 11 May 2019 00:00 UTC End: 16 May 2019 00:00 UTC

Again, your dedication to the Citizen Science model is greatly appreciated no matter your choice!

Tony.


Gold Member replied: The only thing that would make me want to join more is if [team name redacted] were the opponents.

10esseetony: May 10, 2019
Today is the day to switch Einstein teams to [H]ard|OCP in hopes of toppling the SUSA dominance. Literally made my stomach turn to change teams, lol. A lot of our smaller player will be staying behind to make sure AnandTech does not fall off the podium completely.


Gold Member replied: I'm so confused, hold the line.

And now, we get the Gold finger?
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